Well Since You Put It That Way

Pastorius said... Fu2rman,
There may be one closer in history who deserved to win the Cy Young; Mike Marshall of the 1972 Dodgers.

As my memory serves, he appeared in 110 games, saving close to 50, and posted a 1.20 ERA.

That's the most dominant closer ever, if not Eric Gagne.


Based on those numbers, Mariano Rivera is definitely deserving of the Cy Young.

I did some checking on Mike Marshall. I have to correct a few things, first you are referring to the 1974 season, and he did in fact win the Cy Young.

Also, I will show his exact numbers momentarily.

We must also keep in mind that the game was different then, the role of the set-up man was not yet defined, closers then would average 2 innings per game, and would enter the game in any situation.

Today, with the set-up role defined, closers only see one inning of work per appearance, except in that occasional situation when they finish the 8th inning, and then close the 9th. Today, unless a closer hasn't worked in a while, they won't get in the game unless there is a save opportunity.

So saying that...

Here are the numbers, Marshall '74 vs. Rivera '05.

I'm going to throw out a bunch of stats here, so to simplify, I'll put Marshall in Red, and Rivera in Yellow.

Games 106/78
Innings Pitched 208.3/78.3
Saves 43/21
ERA 1.38/2.42
Stikeouts 143/80
Strikeouts per inning 1.025/.687
WHIP
(Walks+Hits per Innings Pitched) .87/1.18
Batting Average Against .177/.238
Record 15-12/7-4

As you can see, Rivera has the edge on Marshall on many of those stats, twice as many saves, a better ERA and batters had less success against him. The others, you can chalk up to less opportunity to rack them up, i.e. less innings pitched, of course less strikeouts.

But I still say, no Cy Young for Rivera.

I'm glad Marshall got the award and all, but it was a different time.

He was not a closer by today's standards.

He logged almost 3 times the innings because he didn't sit in the bullpen if there was no save opportunity. And like I said in the last post, one element that today's closer never has, is Marshall's 15 wins.

Actually, by today's standards, a closer shoud not factor in too many decisions, every loss means a blown save, and many wins only mean he blew a save at home, and his offense bailed him out in the bottom of the 9th. The top 10 closers this year averaged 8 decisions, Rivera has 11, that's a little high.

I agree that Marshall was a deserving Cy Young winner, but again, he was not like today's closer.


Now let's talk Eric Gagne real quick.

I'd put Gagne right next to Rivera. Not ahead.

He's amazing, without a doubt, but so is Rivera.

If Gagne was healthy, and he and Rivera were both free agents, and I had the opportunity to sign one of them, I have to admit, I would sign Gagne.

But not because I think he is better, but only because he is almost 30 years old, and not about to turn 36 like Rivera.

I was serious, there should be an award for the most dominant closer, by today's standards, and it should be called the Mariano Rivera Award.